UPDATE: OUR SYSTEM IS INSTALLED AND WE ARE PRODUCING OUR OWN POWER!
The process took 6 months from contract – with a 4 month delay due to a shortage of computer chips for the Powerwalls.
We have 40 Q-Cell panels and 3 Powerwalls.
The PG&E transformer is older and won’t accommodate a lot of power being pushed back into the grid, so we have a limit on what we can send to the utility.
On the day below, we produced 100% of our power. The yellow line shows what we got directly from the solar panels, the green shows what we got from the batteries.
It’s been a learning curve. There’s not a ton of manual control, but the Powerwall system is able to be taken off-grid completely and it has a time based control algorithm built in so that we are buying power when the price is low (earlier in the day) and storing it for use during the peak pricing period. In the summer, we pay 49c per kWh most of the day, but we pay 60c per kWh from 4-9pm. It’s about 10c less in the winter.
We currently have a storm rolling in so the powerwall may charge from the grid some in the morning so we can avoid paying the higher cost in the afternoon.
Gotta admit – I like that!
You can learn about Time Based Control here: https://www.tesla.com/support/energy/powerwall/mobile-app/time-based-control-user-guide
INITIAL POST: THE PROPOSAL & SELECTION PROCESS WAS OVERWHELMING.
The cost of electricity has gotten so out of hand we have finally given in and decided we have to go solar.
For those who don’t know – I work for PG&E. My first job with them was as a liaison between the company and developers. Part of that entailed coordinating with the solar division.
In addition to that knowledge, I’ve done my homework and learned a lot about the industry, the process and specific companies. I’m sharing that in the hopes that others looking to go solar don’t have to do quite as much research.
If you’re interested, I would be happy to help you evaluate cost difference. Reach out to shawn@tehamafreedom.org.
Selecting a Solar Provider
There’s 3 things we considered when looking at which company to go with:
- Equipment
- Company Reputation
- Cost
Cost is important and did play a role in our decision, but we did not choose the cheapest system for several reasons, which will become clear during this post.
Equipment
TIERS
Solar panels are classified into tiers – there are technically 3 but the lines between tiers 2 & 3 have become fuzzy. Below is a great post about tiers 1 and 2.
The bottom line is that tier 1 companies are financially stable, offer a better warranty, and produce a better product.
https://www.solarreviews.com/blog/pros-and-cons-of-tier-1-vs-tier-2-solar-panels
Panels
Most solar panels and/or their components are built in China. Q Cells are manufactured in the USA, have the highest production per panel and are the most reliable. They are working on creating a supply chain that is 100% USA based – meaning future supply chain issues from China will not be a problem for production.
Batteries
The top of the line batteries are the Tesla Powerwalls. The 3rd generation is the most current – so when comparing, if someone is selling you 2nd gen, you are getting an older product.
Company Reputation
Industry Issues
Solar companies experienced some challenges in recent years, forcing many to go out of business. There were significant supply issues a few years ago (remember the data chip issue?) causing major delays in system builds across the country.
So the companies I would have recommended 5 years ago have lost their edge.
Better Business Bureau
I can’t stress the importance of looking at the BBB information in evaluating companies.
BBB gives a letter grade to each company which indicates how the company addresses complaints.
Rating factors include
- Complaint & resolution history
- Type of business
- Time in business
- Transparency
- Honoring commitments
- Licensing
All of these are important, but their complaint history will show you how well they communicate with customers who have encountered problems.
Communication
Even in the proposal stage, communication was in issue with some companies. Ultimately the one we chose went above and beyond in this area. And we feel confident that we can make contact with the right people should there be problems either during construction or if the system has problems down the line.
Cost
We selected 6 companies to provide proposals. 4 companies gave us numbers but only 2 companies gave us complete proposals.
Of those 2, one was $10k more expensive in overall cost (including finance charges and interest). However, we chose to go with that company because they provided a better product, better production, better warranty, and better customer service.
Cost of the system itself is not the only factor in actual cost. The other factors are warranty, how much of the system production reduces year over year, how much of the system offsets your electric usage (meaning how much will you pay the power company).
Your system should offset more than 100% your annual electricity usage. Ideally, you should only be paying basic fees to the utility, no power usage.
Purchase VS Lease (aka PPA)
You have to ways to pay for solar – purchase or what’s called a Power Purchase Agreement (PPA).
With purchase – you can either pay cash and own the system outright or you can qualify for a loan through the solar company (most require a minimum 650 credit score).
With a PPA, you do not own the system. The solar company owns the system and you pay them for your power usage instead of the electric company. The benefit is that the rate is typically lower than the electric company.
There are two PPA options which can make a huge difference to overall cost:
- Price increases year over year – this usually starts out lower but overall cost will be based on how much it increases every year. This is important!
- Price is fixed for the life of the system. This usually starts a little higher than the increase rate, but if you calculate the overall cost, you’ll likely pay less for this option.
Considerations:
Batteries currently have a 10 year warranty. With the PPA, you don’t pay for the battery replacement. They run about $10k each right now so this can be a huge factor. In our case, it was still cheaper over 25 years to purchase, even if we replace all 3 batteries twice during that time.
Interest Rates
The most cost effective way to pay for solar is with cash. But since most of us don’t typically have that much on hand, making a decision about loans is another important aspect.
We got offers of 3.99, 4.99, 6.99 and 8.99. Believe it or not, the 8.99 was the least expensive over 25 years.
Why? While the lower rates “seem” good, the company actually increases the price of the system to give you the lower rate. You have to calculate the entire cost to make an educated decision.
Warranty
Most companies provide a 25 year warranty with a guaranteed kw production. Some companies provide a 30 year warranty. This means they will pay to fix any problems that come up with production loss – if it is related to the system itself.
Other Considerations
Ground vs Roof Mount
Ground mount is more expensive. However, roof mount may not give you the full 100% offset.
In our case, the roof mount only offset approximately 35% of our usage. So it wasn’t the best choice.
The most productive system will be facing south – our roof faces east on one side and west on the other, reducing the production. That means even if we could offset the entire production, we would need more panels to do so, which would increase system cost.
The ground mount system is easily able to be placed facing due south.
Another concern is the need to repair or replace the roof. If for any reason you need to do that, you will have to pay to have the solar system dismantled and taken down, do the roof repairs, and then pay to have the system re-installed.
That also means you will be paying the electric company for power usage on top of whatever system payment you have.
One of the most common complaints I’ve seen in recent years is from people who have been unable to get their system back up and running after a roof repair.
So if you’re doing roof mount and you plan to replace your roof in the future, I highly recommend doing it before you have a solar system installed.
Contract
DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING until you’re ready to commit.
One company would not give a complete proposal until they did a site survey. They gave rough numbers but wanted a full commitment before they gave us final numbers.
With todays technology being what it is, there is no reason you can’t get a proposal without a site survey. There may be other factors that com into play after the site survey (such as the roof needs repair or replacement, trees need to be cut, etc) but for the most part, satellite technology will tell the company everything they need to know about your property.
The Companies We Looked At
Powur
I’ll put them first because that’s who we went with.
They’ve been in business since 2012. They use Q Cell panels, which are the most reliable and have the highest productivity. They use Tesla Powerwalls for the batteries, which also are the most reliable. And the communication was so much better than any of the other companies.
The first call I got was from the VP on his cell phone. He connected me to a sales rep, who is also the project manager so he will stay in the loop throughout the process.
Knowing I have both of these people to call if I have a problem eases my mind greatly.
As with most solar companies, they contract a 3rd party to do the installation. That company has been easy to deal with and has also been in business long enough to have a solid reputation.
Do me a favor – if you go with Powur, let them know I sent you. I get $1k which would be really nice to put toward paying off this system.
Update: Powur has been great to work with. They used Safe Haven Solar out of Yuba Coty for installation – awesome family owned company. We are still very happy with our decision. There was a 4 month delay due to Tesla having powerwall production issues, but it’s worth the wait.
SunPower
SP is in bankruptcy. It seems they will survive restructuring, but that’s still a concern.
I had an initial conversation with a SunPower rep, but she made an appointment for me with a local contractor and the SP communication ended there.
The local contractor came to the house and showed us on his computer what the system would look like.
He shared some options and sent me several proposals.
He was the most expensive overall but his system was bigger and not necessarily better.
SunRun
SunRun was the first company I spoke with. They gave me an initial proposal for a roof mount PPA system which only offset 30% of our usage.
They made an appointment to send out a site surveyor who would take measurements and provide options for both roof and ground mount.
The surveyor was not interested said he could only take measurements & photos for a roof mount. He refused to make any calls to figure out next steps. So I sent him on his way and called the SP rep.
There was a clear communication gap between the sales rep and the surveyor and the design team.
To make matter worse, the sales rep disappeared after that. No response for a week, when a supervisor called to try to fix the issue.
The rep had a family crisis and took time off. Ok – I get that – but someone should have stepped in to take over his calls in the meantime.
That issue aside, the other communication issues were a big deal for me.
Tesla / Freedom Forever
Tesla used to manage their own sales and installations. Changes in recent years have them using a 3rd party, Freedom Forever.
FF had good communication and provided us a decent quote for a ground mount system with 110% offset. However, they showed us having depleted our battery usage by 9pm, even in the summer months. This didn’t make sense but it also meant we would be paying the electric company approximately 20% of what we currently pay.
I brought it to their attention and the rep was going to discuss it with the design team and provide a new proposal.
I never heard from them again.
Conclusion
While Powur has been great and I highly recommend them, I still strongly encourage you to get multiple quotes. At a minimum, I would talk with Powur, Freedom Forever & SunRun.
But don’t let them (SunRun specifically) push you into signing anything until you’ve made a final decision!
I’d be happy to share contact info for my guy at Powur. and if you need help analyzing costs, I set up a spreadsheet to do that. Reach out and I’ll help you figure out which is the most financially beneficial.
And if you do go with Powur, please let them know Shawn Greer sent you! They have a great ambassador program that helps offset some of the cost.
Tehama Citizens for Freedom 